While normally I would agree, if you rewind some you'll see that the 'stop sale' engines were mentioned. These 'stop sale' engines apparently subaru had a number of bad bearings that were installed in production cars. I would imagine that the same batch also made their way into shortblock assemblies and individual bearing packages. In that case, if would be a defect from subaru and not a mechanics fault. On the other hand, if the pan/pump/cooler/sump and other items were not replaced from the previous engine when the new one went in, there is a 100% chance for failure within a very short time, sometimes as 'long' as 10,000 miles before a cam locks up/rod knock develops/main bearing spins. I've seen this personally many many times from independent shops that dont know any better. But, from my time at Top Speed (I used to work there), plus the experience that SS has from being at SOG during many engine fiascoes, plus Doug's experience, there should never be any issues with engines coming in blown up due to oil starvation/bearing failure and then leaving w/out having the proper list of items replaced.
I guess assuming you can contact the right person at soa you should call with the engine number near starter boss and ask if it is the part of the bad batch.If not then go to top speed for satisfaction.
maybe my first post was written wrong but i am not blaming topspeed for my issue... what everyone should understand is that topspeed is my point of contact, i did not deal with the dealership or soa, i paid topspeed and they are my point of contact... from what topspeed already told me the block was one of the blocks with the bad bearings, i have said before that it is not due to anything topspeed had done, the only issue i have is that if you want to get into warranty issues then when a shop sells something like a 2.5 swap they need to state that it will not be covered through soa because it is not oem instead of saying that the block has a warranty... i am in contact with all three parties trying to get this situated as of now... i have said over and over that this thread was more about customer service from topspeed than the issue of the warranty...
Hes saying if the block was part of the bad batch, then topspeed has nothing to do with it and if it wasn't.. well.. yeah
but if you read mr Kidd's post then you would know your situation already. Topspeed or ANY performance shop for that matter does NOT warranty any parts, just their labor. Therefore your posts and especially your title "topspeed wtf" is accusatory. Until you take topspeed out of this loop and deal with SOA on your own (or with your daddy's help) then you are still in the wrong.
My question is, did topspeed claim that it's a defective engine? If it is indeed defective, then it's a soa issue that need to be worked out between topspeed and soa - topspeed needs to provide the evidence to them. However if it was NOT a defect but topspeed claimed as such to defer responsibility (i.e. cannot prove that there was a defect). THEN I have a problem with that. To me then it's simplly finger pointing just to get out of a problem. Herein lies the problem. According the customer, topspeed did claim that the failure was due to a manufacturer defect. Because they claimed such, they need to prove it. Both to the customer and to SOA. If it's found otherwise, then IMHO topspeed is at fault - not for the engine but for telling the customer something simply because of convenience and not because of actual findings.
^ it does not matter to SOA if Top Speed proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was a defect from SUBARU, FHI/SOA has enough legal stuff behind them to still point the finger at 'it was installed under a non-OE condition' and thats enough to stop it right there. However, proving that it was a SUBARU defect means that TS is in the clear.
Well thats really a separate point. What if SOA can identify that the serial number on the block does indicate a potential defect? They probably would still deny it just by policy. I doubt big companies would every own up to that stuff. It's always about taking the minimum responsibility and reducing costs. On the other hand, TS needs to prove to the customer that it was indeed a defect.
Still wrong. Will is right, the SECOND SOA knows that this motor went into a car that was NOT an STI, /conversation. There could be NO bearings in the motor and SOA would still say no warranty lol. The only way this gets warrantied is if the engine went back into the car it came out of, and it was done at a dealership. I would even venture to say that even if the new engine went back into the correct make and model car, that just being at a performance shop would prob void the warranty. Between Doug and Siegel i highly doubt it was a TS problem. Im willing to bet they bought a stock shortblock from an STI from subaru. They replaced what needed to be replaced and they put it in the car. As long as that car cranks and runs, warranty is over with. Hate to ask, but how do we know the kid didnt overboost to infiniboost an beyond or something else? I mean he made 1 motor rod knock why not another Just playing devils advocate. In short it still comes down to SOA versus the Kid. Topspeed has nothing to do with this, regardless of their customer service. If he drove out of Topspeed and the motor fell out of the car, then he would have a case.
The whole point is, if the engine wasn't in the bad batch then topspeed MAY have installed something wrong.
Right. So there's three options here: 1. The customer did something to make the engine 'bad' again. 2. Defect in the shortblock assy from SUBARU. 3. Error on Top Speed's side with the mechanical install. So at this point, the parties involved need to figure out which one it is. That will be the ONLY solution.
That would be nice. If SOA/FHI could tell us for sure if this block was or was not affected by the 'bad bearing batch' that was in the 'stop sale' engines, that would solve the problem.
well unless i pulled out of the parking lot and messed with the car before i ever even got home then i would not have had time to do anything to the car... why would i pay all this money to have something done and then go be a stupid and mess with it to cause problems.... yes there are some people who just dont care and do that crap but i work for my money and would rather not just blow it.... you people need to learn to read and stop assuming... i stated my situation and asked if anyone had problems with topspeed, people came in and turned it around, i am not blaming topspeed and i am in contact with soa now finally after getting topspeed to give the information i need...
I'd like to know too. I'm about to drop lots of $$ at topspeed for a big proj and would like to know the outcome.
We're just trying to be fair and open minded here. This isnt NASIOC where either the shop or the customer gets flamed right from the start. But we know where you are coming from. Please let us know what the end result is.
We are working on warrantying the motor with SOA. They know that we have done enough motor installs that they are confident that it was installed properly. They have been giving us the run-around, but we're working through it and I think it will be to the satisfaction of all involved. This is an extremely uncommon situation - this is the first time that we have had to warranty a brand new shortblock. I hope that SOA's dragging their feet and giving us hoops to jump through is not being held against us. Our customer service has been continually improving and we are available quite easily - that is my cell number in my sig... Siegel
well as of yesterday i was informed that the soa represenative that looked at the block decided that subaru would warranty out the block... so in the end after alot of time and trouble it turned out good... now just to see how long it takes to get tp the block... thanks everyone
Good news. Looks like Topspeed and crew pulled it off for you. You can't blame them for what they had to do.
Damn That is awesome, no other speed shop that I am aware of would do that for a customer........Top Speed FTW
perhaps we could clarify when a whole engine should be warranteed? I keep reading this thread and thinking 'this is a simple misunderstand,' because some posts seem to think that Subaru is selling 'crate engine' style like a private builder. I dunno, maybe its just me. :/
it took a week of talking to soa to get them to send a rep out to inspect the block and see that it was one of the ones with the bad bearings, upon inspection they agreed to warranty
Just a bit of an update, SOA was out here last week and I talked to him for awhile. Showed him everything that was wrong with the block and went around the car with him as well. When we were all done looking at the customers car he asked to see around the shop. Turns out the guy is an avid enthusiast and has been following my racecar build on the forums. Also turns out that he is looking to buy and RS and wants TopSpeed to build it up for him so he has a toy to play... how funny. After about 30mins we both agree that the motor looks like a factory defect and he infom SOA that he suggests to replace the short block under warranty. About a week goes by and I have kept quiet because it didn't want to jump the gun. But this morning subaru dropped off the replacement shortblock. So moral of the story is "Those who don't know what they are talking about should shut the f up. All you are doing is adding fuel to a fire and have no clue as to what your talking about. SOA did replace the shortblock under warranty, and I don't care who you think you know or what you know about SOA's warranty. Your suggestions are inacurate and wrong... thank you drive through.